Alex Pratt

iGaming History, Episode 22 Transcript

Narcis Gavrilescu:
[00:00:00]
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome back. This is iGaming History, season three, episode one. I am joined today by a man who needs no introduction, Alex Pratt. Thank you very much, Alex, for being with me today.

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Alex Pratt:
Thank you. No, pleasure to be here.

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Narcis Gavrilescu:
My, the pleasure is all mine. How are you today?

Alex Pratt:
Yeah, good. Really good. I was just saying to you that the, the... in a, in good way, the sun has come out. In a bad way, I was trying to block every window as my whole face became white.

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Narcis Gavrilescu:
How about that? That is, the sun is an event in the UK, as I understand.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah. Many times.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Alex, as I said, thank you for joining me. We're trying a different concept for this season, the cost of iGaming, basically what it costs to be in this industry, to be successful in the industry. And, you are, without a doubt, one of the titans of the industry, so thank you for honoring me and being with me today. just for context, I wanna start with the quote that I believe is, most relevant here.

this is a quote from Nietzsche, that, "The value of a [00:01:00] thing someti- sometimes lies not in what one attains with it, but, in what one pays for it," what it costs us. So I think the question that makes sense to start with is how did success look for you when you started in the industry back in 2004?

 

Alex Pratt:
yeah, look, I was a much younger version of myself. So at the time I didn't actually even still now, I didn't really care about kind of job titles or money, and obviously I cared about money in terms of paying rent and success. But I think for me, success was, it was all about, it was, it was about growth and it was about momentum.

It was about building something. And I think that was part of the industry at the time anyway. It was still relatively young. People were still growing products and assets and brands and discovering new ways to, entertain people within the gambling industry. Yeah, so for me, I was almost hooked up on that, momentum myself.

So it was all about what can [00:02:00] we grow? What can we establish? How big can we get? And at the time, everything was open. So yeah, I think for me, that success was ki- yeah, come ... It was just how big can we be? How much can we play a role in this industry? And if we can be at the center of it, of kind of solving problems.

and I didn't really care about product. If it was gonna be a magazine, it was gonna be a magazine. If it was gonna be ... at the time we weren't really focusing so much on websites. It was all print magazines and events. But yeah, it was just, it was, looking back now, it was very external, I think, how I saw success rather than thinking I wanna be a CEO and I wanna have a Ferrari.

And unfortunately, I've got neither.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Something that I wanted to ask you is, because I was reading through, your journey, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you had some publishing experience before.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yes.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
when you got into the industry, you found it interesting that, I think your first interview was in a pub or something like that.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yes.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
[00:03:00] yeah. right? did you f- ever think at that moment that, okay, you mastered, a skill, which was publishing, and you were looking for this momentum, so you thought, "Okay, I know how to do this," and then you also suddenly found yourself in a place where you thought, "Okay, this is a place where I can use the skill and build on the momentum." Did that ever-

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah ...

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
come to mind?

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah. I can't tell you if I had a conscious thought, that conscious thought at the time or during it, but certainly I was looking for a sector and a company to be in where the, where there was opportunity and the, the... My previous experience was with the Institution of Mechanical Engineers.

so running their official magazine, and a few other engineering magazines, and at that sector particularly it was UK manufacturing, was really hard work. It was early 2000s. It was hugely competitive. Okay, there was innovation in tech, but it wasn't [00:04:00] anything like gaming and the momentum that was happening around the internet.

So I think the thing that I was so excited about, and actually recognized almost on day one, that there was just, there was gonna be this explosion and I got to be part of it. so yeah, I don't think, I don't think I consciously thought, "Oh, I've got this skill." I almost just thought, "I love w- My skill, I think, was I just liked working at the time, every minute and every hour of every day- be the best. And actually I think having a sector that also almost had the same values, we kind of married and suddenly everything just worked in the right way.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Oh, now, if Alex Pratt from 2004 met Alex Pratt from today, what do you think would surprise him the most?

A

lex Pratt:
No, I think on a personal level I'll be, "My God, look how many children you've got." What the hell? I think a business level, I would [00:05:00] be amazed at the g- just the kind of scale and complexity that I'm working within now.

that I'm responsible for ICE. and ICE back then was a hell of a lot smaller. but actually it was still the number one event in the world for gaming. and so I think it would be like, "How the hell's that happened?" and I think, yeah, I think, I'd also ... I'd be ... I don't know if I'd be surprised, but I'd be impressed with just the sheer size and scale of the gaming industry.

I think at the time we knew it could be big- ... but it was always kind of a below the radar. It was big in our own world, but maybe not in others. and I think now that it's very much mainstream, it's very much a leader in entertainment. It's on TV, it's on sports shirts, it's everywhere. I think that would really surprise me.

I think the fact that affiliate ex- still exists, I know that sounds ridiculous, but I spent my life thinking it was the last year of the affiliate. 'Cause affiliate at the time was so important because, you couldn't advertise [00:06:00] or market in most mainstream ways. You couldn't be on TV or Meta or on Google.

So affiliates played a really important role. So I was always of the opinion that as soon as people can market like a normal e-commerce brand, then why would you need affiliates? And obviously I was totally and utterly wrong. And which was good in many ways, and they play a far more important role than just driving traffic.

But yeah, I think I'd be pleasantly surprised at actually the size of that as well. I mean, just this, I guess everything's bigger and better.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Speaking of the affiliate, since we're touching on this, you, Alex Tomich, Tom Galanis, is there like a positive correlation in the industry between success and working as an affiliate? 'Cause sometimes- ... it feels like it.

 

Alex Pratt:
I think, I don't know, but it is, I, we, IGB started with it as a magazine for the B2B sector, and then we identified affiliate [00:07:00] as a big opportunity, and then, created a joint venture with the Time Casino Affiliate programmes.com. And that's where I really drove a lot more momentum.

I guess it was- I think at the time the affiliate sector, and still probably is, was always testing and pushing the norm. I think was innovating. It was highly competitive, but also really friendly. and I think because you're, I read a really good article earlier and actually whether it's, regulation changing, terms and conditions being altered on a, on an operator's, affiliate site, or Google suddenly putting an update, you will have to, you have to constantly evolve.

you can't stand still in the affiliate market. So I think it helps you, give you the training to be resilient and innovative, imaginative. That's the only thing I could think. but yes, there is some highly successful people, and people that people don't even know as household names that are far more successful and richer than I will ever dream of [00:08:00] being, that are out there and living dreams in weird islands and places like Monaco.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah, 'cause it, I found this very, it, it teaches you to be resilient, but also, to change and adapt very quickly.

 

Alex Pratt:
Exactly.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
it's, it can change from one day to another, and this can literally kill your business if you-

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah ...

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
uh, if you do things the way you were doing before. how much of your personal identity is tied to your work?

 

Alex Pratt:
I'd say a lot less than it used to be. I s- I think it's still significant just in terms of, think quite often within the gaming industry, and certainly depending on what you do, but when you're in the kind of event space, yourself or your character often will blur with y- how you go about doing business, and I think that's important.

So I think whether that's, and I've talked about it before, but being kind and all these, all the characters that everyone would love, love, [00:09:00] love to be. but I think certainly as I've got older, I've tried to separate that more. I think having family starts to rebalance, like, where you spend your time and your life and I think when, certainly when I, when we first launched, you didn't have Instagram, but we did a lot on Facebook.

We didn't have, we didn't even have email. I used to send it from my own Gmail. We didn't have a, any- anything set up properly. We were just inventing as we went along. But a lot, like, I look back, all the kind of albums of the first events were all on my personal Facebook, and my personal Facebook became very much a work and personal thing, but it m- but that then became a bit more difficult 'cause as I started to have children, I'm like, I don't know-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah

 

Alex Pratt:
who 30% of these people are. They might be-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
You, you-

 

Alex Pratt:
They might not be-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
... cautious ...

 

Alex Pratt:
not one, they might not be friends. So then I spend years trying to categorize everyone in Facebook. to be honest, I barely use Facebook at all anymore, but it did, w- I remember moving to Instagram [00:10:00] thinking, "This is the one where I'm gonna have my own private life," and I'm not, and I have a few gaming people in there, but I wanted a place where I could, actually...

And it, there's no difference between the two people, but certainly I wanted to start to build that border. But particularly w- where you start to have kids and things like this, and if I don't know who you are, and most of the time if you're trying to follow me on Instagram and I don't know who you are, it's usually this pretty annoying content of how good your life is or selling me bonuses or something.

So I'm quite good at, glad I've got that dotted line.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
So y- you've been successful with this, experiment, so-

 

Alex Pratt:
yeah, just about. Just, I feel a bit mean sometimes when people ask to follow and I ignore them, but we'll have to become good friends otherwise.

But there's nothing interesting in there. It's just me and kids , when I had my first child, I was still so d- I was really deep in gaming, living and breathing it on a daily basis. she used, she came, she got more presents than any of my other children [00:11:00] that, she had Baby Groes and just every- ... every gambling company sent her brand- branded and unbranded stuff.

incredible stuff. she had, a, a hoodie made of sh- uh, ha- rabbit fur and all sorts of weird stuff. But anyway, amazing stuff. But, and she used to come to, we used to have something called Sunday Session at the end of the affiliate event. She'd come along to that and she'd, I've got her reading the Tops brochures to be the first affiliate for them.

But,

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah ...

A

lex Pratt:
yeah, she was totally and utterly part of that st- that narrative to start off with.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
do any of them have interest in gaming, or they just do their own thing?

 

Alex Pratt:
they're all under 18, so legally never. No. I feel like some of them might get in there, but definitely e-sport style gaming.

I learn a lot from them on that side.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
That, that's, that's probably a totally different subject to discuss another time.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
But I also, 'cause I also grew up with that. I'm very into e-sports myself, and I'm surprised that it hasn't taken off as-

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah ... hardcore as other things. Oh, agreed.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
what, what's, an invisible [00:12:00] effort that people don't see about your, about you and about what you do?

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah. Look, I think the difficult thing is, I guess is being able to manage multiple stakeholders, that often have different agendas. and I guess what I mean by that, if I look at from a customer perspective, we will have, one bunch of stakeholders will be our exhibitors. And actually even then that could be exhibitors that are land-based, exhibitors that are online, and exhibitors that are affiliate, operators.

And act- you could break it down further and further. And then an- another group of stakeholders is the, is the buyers. Another one was the regulators. All of them want different outcomes or different objectives when they interact with our products, whether it's digital or offline. And so trying to balance those whilst also dealing with internal stakeholders, whether that is our staff that have actually, "I wanna be able to deliver the best event ever," or our investors or our [00:13:00] ultimate owners that actually, "Where's the bottom line?"

And I think it is often a difficult tightrope to tread, in that you, you can never make everybody happy, but it's just trying to find that balance that we are still running a successful commercial business whilst delivering end results for all those different stakeholders. And I think that's always been quite difficult.

And as we've got bigger and bigger, those outcomes become less and less in my control. But at the same time, I have to, when they fail, I know X amount of people didn't turn up at an event. Luckily, that hasn't happened recently. but certainly has in my past. I'm the one that has to wear that, whether it's internally or externally, but it might not have-- it mi- I'm less and less directly involved in those successes, but I have to also bear the brunt when they aren't a success.

So it's-- I think that's, it's that kind of balance, yeah, of delivering what our different people want.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
how do you deal [00:14:00] with that? how- Do-

 

Alex Pratt:
I think it's being honest and transparent from the start that we can't, we can't do everything for everyone, and I think that's the f- that's the starting position.

I think there's also, for me, I've always felt where possible we should prioritize one of the groups, and for me it's always been the buyer. so when I first started in publishing, you- we always said the reader is the number one client. it doesn't matter what an advertiser spends or wants, if you're not prioritizing the reader, they're not gonna read and then no one's selling anything.

And I think I've almost carried that through. So you'll see when we launch the affiliate events, the ... It's really simple, but the way we carved our way into that market, 'cause we weren't the first, was we said, affiliates, they are our number one customer. Everything we do is for them." they get in free to our shows.

in the old days, no one let them in free. so we said, "Look, affiliates never pay to come into a show. Affiliates, will drink for free. They'll have the best part," whatever it is. And it's the same now, like who's the ultimate buyer? Now, that does change [00:15:00] in a complex environment like ICE, 'cause sometimes it's the regulator, sometimes it's the buy- I don't know, a chief executive or a buyer, an operator.

Sometimes it's now the affiliate, or whoever it may be. So I think as long as we're prioritizing those needs, whether it's helping them with their pain points or helping them with their gains, then I think ultimately everyone else will be happy because the exhibitors will sell whatever it is they're selling, we'll make more money, and ultimately we'll win.

But it ... Sometimes it's difficult when you have, more short-term pressure- th- that, that means you have to make short-term decisions that, that aren't necessarily gonna benefit you in the long term. But that's just life, isn't it? It's just finding balance and, and I guess owning it. I might not agree with it at times, and that's what happens sometimes when you work in various places.

But actually when I leave that room, I will be the person that owns it and will drive it right through. and ... But I'll do it with [00:16:00] honesty, transparency.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
You, you personally, you made your peace with it, that you don't have control over everything?

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah, and that's been hard-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
The ease

 

Alex Pratt:
'cause I love control.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
That's why I'm asking you.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah. Just because. I love control, and I find that's probably the most difficult times when I've lost control personally or professionally, that's when I find, I f- that's when I'm at my highest pressure environment. I'm like- ... "Get me out of here."

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah ...

 

Alex Pratt:
but I think as you get older Not necessarily older, but I guess wiser, which some people are far wiser than me and younger, you start to learn about yourself in, in a lot more ways. And I think it makes it easier to deal with those situations- ... because actually you recognize what's going on and the feelings you're having.

And it doesn't make it any easier, but it means you can get through it in a l- in a more efficient way.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
when you don't have things under control, it's like an emotional friction.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
[00:17:00] you, inside you're, like, completely uncomfortable. And letting go of that, understanding that, part of this is normal, is very difficult.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yes. No, completely. It takes a lot of time. But therapy helps. Get yourself some therapy and you'll come out the better on the other side.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
uh, I've tried. I've tried. But, it hasn't worked out for me.

 

Alex Pratt:
Ah.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
I just had to make my own peace. if you had to quantify what success really cost you in time, in relationships, and in peace of mind, could you? how would you arrange it?

 

Alex Pratt:
I think time's a big one. Um, especially the early years. I talked earlier, I, I've, I've come to realize that, and I won't bother getting a diagnosis. but based on a number of my children also being neurodiverse, I've come to realize that I'm definitely ADHD, and that meant part of the traits that I have is that I will often [00:18:00] hyper-focus, and yeah, in a very big way.

And I think that's, has driven a lot of my success. It means that I've been relentless. but that often meant sometimes, particularly prior to having children, I'd be up till 2:00, 3:00 in the morning. and I used to... People used to be like, "Oh my God, you're always online." I used to be proud of that, proud that I was never offline, proud that I got up as soon as the morning, I would answer people.

I couldn't handle not having email in my inb- and even now, having email in- inbox freaks me out. I have to deal with things, although there's probably loads of people watching going, "You haven't replied to my email." So I think that, that took a lot of time off me, which was fine at the time.

But actually as I started to build a family, I think that meant that I was making sometimes unhealthy choices that I would probably come to regret. didn't mean I wasn't a... I think, and I think combined with that is, is always, my brain is always [00:19:00] somewhere else sometimes, or always on, thinking about whatever's going on at work or whatever's going on in the industry or whatever it may be.

So sometimes when I am present, I'm also not present either. And I think that's what's it's taken from me and still does to a degree. And I think- Part of the solution is being aware of that, and being consciously present. And I think that I split up with my ex-wife, God, five years ago now, and obviously unfortunately see my children less than I did previous when I was living in the same house.

But I'd say I'm more present and see them more because I'm now consciously present even though it's like-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Mm-hmm ...

 

Alex Pratt:
less of the time. So it's I'd say it isn't just about spending the time, it's about putting your phone down and actually listening to what they say.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Mm-hmm.

 

Alex Pratt:
And I think, yeah. So I'd say, yeah, they're the p- probably the biggest cost.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
have you ever been told that you live in your [00:20:00] head a lot?

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah. Yes. All the time. Constantly. Oh my gosh. Overthinking. I love overthinking.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
I salute-

 

Alex Pratt:
Scenarios that go on and on ...

Narcis Gavrilescu:
I salute you as a fellow ADHDer.

was there ever a moment when you questioned where, what you were doing, if it was worth it?

 

Alex Pratt:
Look, I think it's usually ... I think there's always moments like that. always. I think... not always, that would be awful. But, there's often moments like that, and I think it's where you're in that really high pressure situation, and that could be like we were talking about earlier, where there's that kind of loss of control.

or that you're having to make decisions that you don't necessarily agree with. or you've got, I don't know, even these days where things are exploding on social media, and actually if you comment or add to it, it's only gonna get worse.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yes.

 

Alex Pratt:
And you're just like, "God, how have I ended up in this hole?"

... and there's loads of examples like that, like COVID was really hard. Now, to [00:21:00] be fair, I couldn't question is it worth it and leave 'cause there wasn't anywhere else to go 'cause it was COVID, so we were stuck in a hole. but actually where, where even where events haven't done well or something's happened that's out of your control, the, I look at, some people that I know that organize events and things like, the, the Middle East region at the moment, and actually it's out of their control and it's kinda it's just really hard.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Mm.

 

Alex Pratt:
So I think, yeah, I don't... I think it always tends to pass, and then actually it's always interesting. I move through a change curve quite fast. Like recently, unfortunately it's confidential, but recently I went through that whole, "God, I'm angry, God, I'm upset," but- ... and then I come out the other side and I'm a, we measure a lot of, personality in colors.

We use a lot of the cali- color insights thing, and I'm a yellow red, and the yellow is all about optimism and visionary, and red is really be gone, be talking fast and getting things done. So I come out quite fast and then like actually everything's good. [00:22:00] Like I suddenly see the positive side of it.

so I think, yeah, it tends to pass quite fast. it's never been enough for me to walk away from anything. But yeah, certainly I've had nights where I've kept up late at night thinking, "God, what am I doing? Is this even worth it?" And, but then yeah, then you come out the other side and you think, "God, this is fun."

You forget. I think that might be just weird human nature dealing with it issues. It's, I don't know. I don't think there's, a proper explanation to it.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah. You just go through it. A- and even if it doesn't make sense temporar- what's, what Elon Musk says, that you look into the void and you chew, and you chew glass, and that's entrepreneurship.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah. Which is sometimes it kinda feels that way.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
I remember in your talk with Alex, you said that when you were younger you were a little bit more aggressive, and you went hard and you wanted to win.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
and [00:23:00] retrospectively, you could have been a bit kinder a- and, done some things differently. Walk me a bit through that.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah, I think aggressive was the wrong, is almost the wrong word to use, 'cause loads of people have brought that up since. I think it's... I think I was so ambitious- ... I so wanted to achieve something that I made decisions that I probably prioritize growth sometimes over kindness, which is a bad thing to admit. probably against my own morals. but at the time I didn't care. I just wanted to, yeah, to grow our business, and if I could find a way.

Obviously not illegal, nothing illegal, nothing dodgy like that. But certainly, yeah, I guess it could be called aggressive. and I think it allowed us to accelerate really fast in our early stages. I think we got lucky and forgiven for some of the things we did, because we were close to the market, and they knew actually, and that actually was me at the front of it rather than a boring brand.

so it's harder to hate a [00:24:00] person, I think, than a name on a board. but I do think you can still be ambitious, and you don't have to be as hard edged. I think more around long-term relationships now. but yeah, like it was, we, as I said, we were not the only affiliate event in town, and there was already one, and for some intelligent reason, I wanted to be the only one in the world.

so I went out of my way to become the only one in the world, including hiring a bar outside their event and putting on free drinks for affiliates all day long. And it was like, now I look back, if someone did that to me, I'd be like, "What the you doing?"

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah.

 

Alex Pratt:
this isn't how we play games. And actually it was stupid.

that was a long, 2008 type time. It's a long time ago, and I feel like I could have done that in a much better way, rather than being so kind of ambush. But it worked. Turns out having a monopoly is not a good thing either because then you're the only person to hate.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yes.

 

Alex Pratt:
[00:25:00] And also you don't really grow as a business 'cause you don't have competition to keep you on your feet and things like this.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
yeah, it's swings and roundabouts. if I may ask you, if nowadays you wouldn't do the bar-

 

Alex Pratt:
No ...

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
but how would you do it differently?

 

Alex Pratt:
I'd probably just acquire them.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
But you need the money for that, right?

 

Alex Pratt:
but there was, there was an issue with their business model- ... at the time, and that was because they were charging affiliates, and that's how we carved into that space. So actually if I'd stuck to our core values and the value proposition we had, which was going to win anyway- like we knew that. We were carving into the space, and actually allowed them to exist as that second best, 'cause that would allow us a, a benchmark. and I think even if they'd pivoted and said, we're not gonna charge affiliates now," I think we had so much momentum, so many relationships, and also still thinking about what could we do next, that we would've won anyway and won in a better [00:26:00] way, yeah, a better way and probably made more money, 'cause to be honest, we s- I then the following year put an event on three weeks behind his and we basically went head-to-head and actually that ne- you're seeing it now in Malta, I think one's already pulled out, but where you've got...

we've got too many events full stop. But where you've got so many events in one region or even in Europe, the amount of events, it doesn't help anyone. It doesn't help the organizer because y- you're not gonna be able to deliver a valuable event for your exhibitors or your attendees. It doesn't help the exhibitors because you're splitting the attendees, and the same for attendees.

You're splitting exhibitors, you're splitting them and no one gets value. And I think y- you, if you think about it in that way rather than just following the, the trends like, "Oh my God, Brazil's opening up. We've all gotta have an event in Brazil." And that's why I've not launched because what value would I be delivering to the market?

Yes, I could have put one there years ago, and probably made an, an, a profit. But at what cost? and I think that's how I've changed. I guess that's a perfect example that, I make a decision more based [00:27:00] on the market and its needs than my needs now. And that means I hope that in the long term we win.

when everyone's moaning about events, I am always to remind them pre-COVID we had many more events than we have now. We now have three, of which two of them happen in, at ICE and that is it. Before we had Lisbon, Cape Town, New York, Brazil, Nairobi. we had loads. We had them all over the place.

and they've all gone. But that's because the market doesn't need that many events, but no one else listened to the newspaper.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
No, it's interesting that you have this approach and I remember when I was listening to the interview you had with Pierre, you said how much goes into an event and how much you need to look, I rem- I don't know, the, the number of flights coming in and out and all these things.

 

Alex Pratt:
Oh yeah. When we did that.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
A lot of metrics that you need to judge by as well. was there any part of you that you needed to suppress in order to achieve [00:28:00] success?

 

Alex Pratt:
yeah, I think, again, it's much more about like looking back retrospectively. I think- That kind of doubt or insecurity, or not insecurity, uncertainty.

I think when I was the kind of younger version of me, probably worried more what people felt. I was just becoming a manager. I was just becoming a fa- you just always worry, you always have that, imposter syndrome that, should I really be here? and I think-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yes ...

 

Alex Pratt:
so you almost suppress that by, this is how I should behave and this is how I should be, and this is how I should be seen.

And I think what I've learned is actually ... And I think society as well has learned. I think there's a bit ... The world has moved on a lot in 20 odd years. and I think the authentic self is something now to be proud of, and vulnerabilities are good, and actually talking about your journey to who you became, and that includes those painful [00:29:00] moments, and those failures are actually something that people encourage these days.

so I think, yeah, these days less and actually, I have, a coach and he's ... He will always be like: "Why are you not ... Why?" Like, when, during COVID I was, going through my divorce and I moved into a new house, and I kept the background blurred and I didn't want my team to know I was going through this, and he was like: why?

Like, why? What are you hiding?" it's okay. and it's interesting 'cause even then, that's not that long ago, I was still trying to, exhibit this, everything's okay. Don't worry. But actually it's all right to say that it's not okay.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Isn't it a paradox of power? Because if you I'm thinking a lot of this I've seen purely from a commercial perspective. If you're, for example, not doing well and you say, "Hey, listen, I need help," it's just not as attractive [00:30:00] as if you're d- doing poorly, but you portray yourself as cocky or-

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah ...

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
or something like that. It's... I find it a very interesting paradox.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah. Yeah. No, I think a big part of it is just the way, I think the way I was brought up is very different to how other people are brought up now.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah.

 

Alex Pratt:
And I think in this day, we will celebrate in our household, and I've t- three of my children, three of the four are boys, we will celebrate talking about feelings, and we will celebrate that vulnerability-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah ...

 

Alex Pratt:
and we will celebrate. it's okay to... Whereas I think when I was younger and brought up, that was something that you, you didn't really talk about feelings, and actually holding it in and burying it was, like, a good thing.

you had to be a man and-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yes ...

 

Alex Pratt:
all those silly stereotypes that now I think are going. Now, not for everyone, and there's a whole journey for that, and I think there's a lot of mental health issues in men because we still... [00:31:00] A l- a lot of men still feel that. But I think that's changing, and I think that then bleeds into leadership, and I think...

But then you've also got social media, and actually everything's a lot more transparent now, and I think leaders within businesses are now part of the brand of that business, which means they need to have a story, and they, and it's very easy to see through someone that isn't real or genuine. And I think it's a bit like AI slop these days.

I thought it was amazing. I loved AI to start off with. I still love it, but I'm really growing tired very fast of the output because I recognize it now-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah ...

 

Alex Pratt:
and what it is. Initially I thought, "God, this makes me sound clever," and it did for about three weeks.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah.

 

Alex Pratt:
Now it makes me sound lazy. So I'm having to write again. It's killing me.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah. It's, and it's something that a lot of people talk about.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
it has become quite obvious. was there ever a relationship that suffered because of your [00:32:00] ambition?

 

Alex Pratt:
I think- Oh, I'd say if I looked, I think, yeah, some of the relationship with my kids, but not

Certainly suffered, but not detrimental thankfully, 'cause I think I recognize that. But certainly the third child, I was traveling like crazy, and I was going to all the events, and he talks about it now, "God, you were away so much then." And I was really prioritizing that, and I was running on a budget, so I'd fly on a Saturday.

And I remember, I'll always remember, one time when I was like, "Ah..." And I was saying it was 'cause of budget, but it wasn't. It's 'cause I wanted to get to Vegas on a Saturday night. And I remember getting to the Heathrow Airport, and they're like, "Oh, we've overbooked this flight. Do you wanna..." I think they offered me, like, crazy, a, a thousand pounds plus this, plus that.

And I was like, "No, I wanna go to Vegas." And I remember getting there, and it lands at, 5:00 PM, and I went out there and I was like, "What am I doing?" it wasn't even a good night. It's like all the... it's like Vegas all over. You get excited and then you get there and then you're like, [00:33:00] "Ugh."

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah.

 

Alex Pratt:
and I thought, "You could have taken the money and had time with your family and everyone." And I just thought, I remember thinking then, "You're, like, making really bad choices," and actually selfish choices as well. but I think, look, I think it suffered, but I don't think, Luckily they're young enough that I can mend all that.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
When was the first time when you felt powerful in your career?

 

Alex Pratt:
I'm not, I don't think I've ever felt powerful. I think the day that you feel powerful is gonna be your downfall.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Mm.

 

Alex Pratt:
Um, only because- Where power lies depends on who you are at that moment in time. That sounds really weird, but like we're all part of a team, we're all part of a different part of a value chain, we're all part of a different supply.

Like I know as an event organizer, I'm very powerful about buying venues. actually I'm not. The person below me is who makes the decision. so no, powerful is the wrong word. I think the bit I [00:34:00] remember is when I felt... I guess two things. One is when I felt real pride and I felt important imp- or I was playing an important role in the sector, and I think really an easy one, and that's why I think events become addictive as a sector.

Because even though you're sending out a magazine at the time to 10 odd thousand people, and I remem- actually, that was one of the first times I got on a plane to Vegas for G2E, long time ago, and there was a man on the plane like reading it. And I was like, reading IGB. and I took a picture of him, and I've never found out who he was.

I put it on Facebook, I think, at the time. And I felt massive pride, 'cause we posted this magazine out, he's taken it in his bag, got on a plane, and read it on a plane. I was like, wow. So it was that, and I think also events. Like that first event we put on, people have spent loads of money to get there, taken time out of their office.

A lot of people in those days weren't just doing gaming full time on the affiliate side. This was a part-time job.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah.

 

Alex Pratt:
Only a few hundred people [00:35:00] there, but I suddenly felt like I was part of something, that I brought people together that was then- ... going to create new relationships, new business. It was gonna change things.

And I think that is just a really proud feeling that you've suddenly got this responsibility.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah.

 

Alex Pratt:
But yeah, I would love the day where I feel powerful, but I think I need to set my sights on becoming a dictator.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Maybe a trip to North Korea or something.

 

Alex Pratt:
Exactly. Don't tell anyone.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
No, I won't. two questions related to each other. One, what did you gain that money can't buy? And number two, what did you lose that money can't replace?

 

Alex Pratt:
money.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
yes,

 

Alex Pratt:
I was just thinking, I was trying to think of what money doesn't buy, and can't replace.

I think, look, a really obvious one, it's a bit of a, an annoying answer, but it's the truth, and often the truth is annoying because it's real. I think that friends, on what I [00:36:00] gained a, an amazing network of people, and many of those are, I'd say, friends that I'll keep forever. even today, tomorrow night I'll go to the SBC boxing, and people are, I've just, I think a message from someone that's not actually going to but they're gonna be in the hotel and they're with a whole bunch of people from the really old days.

They're not in gaming anymore, and they're all gonna be there. And actually it's just, it's interesting that those, you have lifelong relationships. I think on a more business-y thing, I think resilience, I think kind of confidence. I think on what I lost, I think, yeah, I think I guess the bit that I talked about before, that time, some of that time with the kids.

and to be honest, I couldn't have not gone to Ice, but I could have. But Maisie, my first one, I missed... she walked all the pla- times to choose. She decided to walk for the first time when Ice was on. I'm like, "What the hell?" But I wasn't w- running Ice or anything in those days. And there's a few times like that where I've got-- I laugh at it now.

I've got a video from one of my sons [00:37:00] going, Daddy, miss Daddy, will you come home?" And at the time I thought, "Oh God, this is funny. Look at this." But actually I look back and actually that's a little boy wishing his daddy was at home. so I think, yeah, and you can never get those back. but actually, like a big thing for me is, you learn from mistakes.

You don't regret them. I would never change anything in the past because that's how we got to this point, probably. so yeah, you learn from it. You just be better and you be a better person going forward. So I've lost it, but I've gained.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
If, anybody offered you double the success but at double the cost, would you take it?

 

Alex Pratt:
not these days, I don't think.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
All right.

 

Alex Pratt:
I think, yeah, I think my life's changed. My ambitions have changed. I think I've got a different perspective. I think I like... Yeah, I'm still really hungry. I still wanna grow. I still wanna compete, but I think I understand balance now.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah.

 

Alex Pratt:
And I think I understand what is important in life.

and I guess it's going back to that- You can be a, you can be r- and I [00:38:00] know some really successful but also really lonely people, and they keep striving. And I was speaking to someone the other day, and we're, and I said to him, he's very successful, and I said Why do you not... he's made, let's say 10 million, and I said, "Do you not wanna, become a billionaire or a hundred millionaire?

Like, why are you chilling out these days?" And he was like, "All the people I know that are, like, that rich are just depressed 'cause they can't stop. They just have-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah ...

 

Alex Pratt:
to keep getting more, and they can't stop. They're just stressed." Which is crazy because they're, like, infinitely richer than I'll ever be, but that's because that's not what will make us happy, and I think understanding that balance is a big lesson.

So yeah, still be ambitious, still be hungry. I've got a hell of a lot of years and a lot of, a lot of world to still take over, but I'm not sure I'd do it double the cost.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Tell me about the future. How do you see it? For yourself, for ICE, where does it go?

 

Alex Pratt:
yeah, look, for myself, I don't know 'cause I'm...

I keep saying I'll get out of gaming one day, and that was [00:39:00] 20-something years ago. And I'm still going in the same circle. I guess that I accept that I'm on part of a journey of this business. I won't be here forever-

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah ...

 

Alex Pratt:
so I'll have to get off that train at some point. and I do think about that a lot.

W- do I wanna start again? Do I wanna do something outside of gaming? Do I wanna do something inside gaming? Do I wanna, I don't know, become a goat farmer? so I do think about- ... I do think about these things. but right now my head is totally focused on what we're doing within gaming, and actually broadly more around what a live and digital business can truly look like when you've got a kind of underpo- underpowered or under- underpinned by a really good foundation of technology and data.

And I think we're starting to get into something really interesting around building, and I don't wanna be too buzzwordy management account, management consultant, but building a platform or an ecosystem where we can solve our customers' [00:40:00] problems, where we can understand truly a buyer intent or attribution or be able to interrupt our customer journey to solve whatever they need solving at that point.

And I think I'm just starting to understand how we can do that and if we can do that, then we can start to build a pretty sophisticated economic moat around our business, and then I think we can then scale. So I'm still thinking about growth, and it's interesting, when I took on the Clarion gaming business, it was almost, accepted that ICE had hit its kind of peak.

That 30-odd thousand people was right, filling up our Excel was right, and I believed it, but actually when you start to take a step back and look at the size and scale of this industry, the amount of employees The addressable market, the growth that it's still going through, actually we were only just scratching the surface.

So at a product level, I'm still really excited to continue to [00:41:00] grow and scale ICE. I s- heard something really interesting the other day. So we are the most complex exhibition now in Barcelona, and you gotta remember Fira's one of the biggest- ... venues in the world. We... Oh, I can't remember. I'm gonna have to remember the stat, but we basically are rigging what we hang above.

We hang more than Mobile World Congress, who take the entire venue b- because of the complexity of our stands. And apparently it's equivalent, and I'm gonna get it wrong, but it's either five or seven blue whales, hung- ... when you add it all together. But anyway, I digress. My point is- ... there's a hell of a lot more we can do, and I think, whether that is moving into some of the technology brands, and bringing the l- so we'd started with Microsoft, but as we start to look at other, suppliers, as we start to break down the barrier that this is, this industry is not some vice industry that's terrifying and full of bad people.

Actually, it's technology, it's entertainment, it's jobs, it's growth, it's gonna help. it is a good sector to be in. I [00:42:00] think a big part of my role, and our company's role now, is to be that shop window, and whether that's investing in, the research institute, building partnerships with some of these big technology businesses or around how we, bring those regulators and legislators to ICE to have those conversations.

That's, to me, is the kind of exciting next stage for us. anyway, that's a really long answer about the future.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
No, it's,

 

Alex Pratt:
Or love my, or love farm goats, either one.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Have you ever thought, if you, the... more seriously, if you ever went out of gaming, do you know what you would do or no?

 

Alex Pratt:
just grow something.

I just, I really enjoy growing businesses.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Yeah.

 

Alex Pratt:
re- and so to be honest- I feel because of my weird nature, I could go into most sectors and kind of bluff and blag my way in slowly. But look, probably in, it would probably be even- in events and media. It would be in a industry that is dynamic and changing.

I co- I wouldn't want to go into [00:43:00] kind of a highly regulated stale market that it might be huge, but it hasn't really got much innovation or growth within it. so I think they're the things that really interest me. but I think, and there's lots of, there's stuff exploding all the time that's interesting.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
How would you like to be remembered in iGaming history?

 

Alex Pratt:
I think someone that I guess helped evolve the industry and didn't just operate in it or take money from it. I think someone that was a good person that, yeah, that gave back, that was respected.

yeah, just generally, hopefully not forgotten, but just thought about over a few beers at night saying, "God, that guy was... He was a good guy and-" "... can't believe that thing he did or that event," or, "Do you remember when he fell over or whatever it may be."

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
No, but, first of all, like you're already known for these things, definitely not forgotten.

You'll never be forgotten. And, you, you really set a [00:44:00] standard for the industry. everywhere I go, everybody I've ever spoken to, even when I came into the industry, I'm like, you never know. I didn't know that events were such a serious thing and like people loved them so much, but it was always ICE, ICE.

I get everything I need from ICE. Go to ICE. So it's you definitely.

 

Alex Pratt:
It's interesting, I didn't create ICE. I'm just a... and I guess that's the bit, is about being someone that helped evolve the industry. We're a custodian. we all are really and I found the... I'm gonna put it out in a bit, but I found, the show guide, not for the first one which was 1936.

For the second one- ... 1937. It's fascinating reading it and there's a few really interesting bits like the letter from the person, how to address people, whether it's a duke or a duche- like really interesting stuff. Like some of the exhibitors, that were there. and it makes you realize that is...

Now it stopped a bit for the war, so not quite 90 years, but if it was, if it had been running every year it would've been [00:45:00] 90 years. and you think actually you're just, I'm just part of that journey. I'm 10 years of it and I guess it's a bit like, look, we get philosophical. It's like being on this earth.

You try and leave it in a better place than when you found it. And I think, I guess that's, yeah, that would be my answer is that I left gaming and if you really wanna niche it up, the gaming event and media market in a better place than when I found it.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Definitely. Thank you very much, Alex, for your time.

 

Alex Pratt:
No, it's been a pleasure.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Absolute pleasure on my side. I will leave Alex as if everybody isn't following you already.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah.

 

Narcis Gavrilescu:
But I'll leave the links- ... and everything in descriptions. talk to Alex, very interesting person. Thank you again for being on the show.

 

Alex Pratt:
Yeah, you too. Thank you.

Narcis Gavrilescu:
Take care everyone. Thank you for watching us